Issue 318: Examples of E3 Condition State

Starting Date: 
Working Group: 

posted by Thanasis Velios   on 16/9/2016


I think that the two first examples of E3 Condition State should be re-phrased. Currently, they can confuse someone to think that the E3 Condition State is "the Amber Room" and "the Peterhof Palace" which are not E2 Temporal Entity but physical things. In conservation traditionally condition is considered as a physical thing hence the possibility for confusion.

Suggested changes:

From this:
'the “Amber Room” in Tsarskoje Selo being completely reconstructed from summer 2003 until now'
To this:
'the "reconstructed" state of the “Amber Room” in Tsarskoje Selo from summer 2003 until now'

From this:
'the Peterhof Palace near Saint Petersburg being in ruins from 1944 – 1946'
To this:
'the "ruined" state of Peterhof Palace near Saint Petersburg from 1944 to 1946'

Also, given the scope note of S16 State from CRMsci, can I propose another example for E3 Condition State which might be clearer for conservators:

'the topography of the leaves of Sinai Printed Book 3234.2361 on the 10th of July 2007 (described as: of type "cockled")'

All the best,


Current Proposal: 

The 37th joined meeting of the CIDOC CRM SIG and ISO/TC46/SC4/WG9 and the 30th   FRBR - CIDOC CRM Harmonization meeting, the crm-sig discussed the proposal about the examples made by Velios and changed the examples of E3 Condition State.

Also a new issue emerged about the identity conditions for states in  S16 Sate in CRMsci.  Martin proposed to check the ABC model for materials (George ?)

Berlin, December 2016

Posted by George on 1/4/2017

This is the definition of state in ABC

> Name State Subclass of Temporality Description A State is a context for making assertions about Actualities. A State corresponds to the concept of a place in a Petri Net or a state in a finite-state machine. A State stands in contrast to an Event, meaning that Events mark snapshots of change (possibly influenced by some Agent) whereas States mark periods of stability establishing a context for properties to be asserted for Actualities. Another way of saying this is States provide a context for adjectives (properties) on Actualities, where Events provide a context for verbs (Actions) by Agents. The time certainty for a State is implicitly within the time contexts for the events that enclose it (i.e. a State can serve as the isInput of one Event and the isOutput of another). However, the time certainty can be explicitly stated via a atTime property on the State. The purpose of this is to make the model as closed as possible - where the time certainty of Events and States is known.

Martin has argued that a state is a

State is a phase which starts with a specific set of properties coming into existence

state ends when this set/combination of properties stops or is interrupted

identity condition = specify the property pattern, which is arbitrary

the state is not natural, it’s something we prescribe a set of parameters and observe if they hold

we then observe object to get validity to know if it is there

The current scope note of S16 is:

This class comprises the persistence of a particular value range of the properties of a particular thing or things over a time-span.

So perhaps we need to add something like

'the identity of a state is defined arbitrarily by the observer as the set of properties that they are aiming to check for in one or more observed phenomena. A state is supposed to hold continuously over the time that it is asserted to have been the case for the object of which it is a state.’ 

These are just some thoughts for discussion to go alongside the reported material from ABC if helpful.